Friday
Dec252009
North Augusta Today feature on Congregation Beth Shalom
Friday, December 25, 2009 at 9:22 PM Our own Lucy Koch was interviewed in this article about why she attends Congregation Beth Shalom.
http://natoday.augusta.com/node/6548
Reader Comments (9)
Before reading the article we were thinking of visiting your synagogue, however after reading it, we decided not to attend. We thought that you have a "synagogue" not a "church". Why would a Messianic Jewish organization call themselves a "church" Are you Messianic jewish or christians?
Actually, this article goes against what you stand for on your website. Why is there such a discrepancy?
Looking For Truth,
I'm not sure what in that article other than the word "church" was not in keeping with our beliefs. If you have specific concerns please post them. As for the word "church", surely you are aware that I have no editorial control over what appeared in the paper. I tend to use the term "congregation" when I speak to people. Partly that is because it is a common term that people understand and it's in keeping with "Congregation Beth Shalom". I am not sure why they chose to use the word church throughout the article. My guess is that 1) it saves on space - it's a tiny article and 2) the title of the section is "The Church Today" and that is a term that their audience is accustomed to. I'm sure no offense was intended by the paper.
I must say though that it is somewhat tedious to explain the difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity to people. For one thing, Messianic Judaism means different things to different people. You'll find no shortage of articles where people argue that Messianic Judaism has nothing to do with them - whether they are Christian or Jewish! I try to walk a fine line between offending people and answering their questions about why we both believe in Messiah and follow Torah. Not that the Gospel isn't offensive but my intent is not to pick fights and harden hearts.
I also wouldn't expect that the reporter would be aware of the problems of referring to a Messianic Synagogue as a church. For those who have "come out of the church", that has often been an unpleasant experience. For those that grew up Jewish, it is equally difficult. Both would share an understanding of the problems your choices may cause with family and both would be hesitant to use the term "church" though from different perspectives. It's something most people haven't thought about. I think I've probably only run into one or two people here that even knew that Messianic Judaism existed let alone theological particulars. And again, not everyone agrees on some of the particulars. There are relatively few people in the movement at all and as is often the case, though we may be convicted about the things we have been led to study, we haven't all covered the same material.
If you visit our congregation, you will find, for instance, that most of the women cover their heads when they pray. I have been to congregations where they did not other than during an Erev Shabbat service and then it would be only the woman lighting the candles. Some women keep their hair covered all the time, others do not. We have some people in our congregation that also attend "churches" and many that do not. People are in different places in their walk with the Lord and I am sure we can all look back to a time where we did not understand finer points or where, for whatever reason, we were conflicted in our observance. The Lord doesn't use everyone the same way either. All I can say for that is that I am completely and utterly overwhelmed by the grace that the Lord extends to each and every one of us and His provision for repentance. It is hard not to look back in shame on whatever past failings we may have had, but when you look at how far he has brought you (and I'm hard-headed, it was a struggle) it's been pretty amazing. I try to focus more on where He's leading me now.
One thing that I did talk with the reporter about that didn't make the article was about baggage we bring to a situation. When you start investigating Messianic Judaism, from a Christian or Jewish perspective, you have to let go of a lot of your personal opinion and get back to just the Word. It is a difficult process to discern the difference and then set more of yourself aside so that you have room for more of Him. One thing that I find most interesting about our mishpachah (Yiddish for "family") is that so many people from so many different walks of life have been able to do that.
If you feel led to visit us or join us on our walk, please do so. I am sure you will be welcome. If you have any concerns or further questions, please let us know.
I like your comment about you have to let go of a lot of your personal opinion and get back to just the Word. I agree. Be Blessed.
I read the article and found it to be interesting as well as informative. I agree with Lucy, that no offense should be taken because the journalist chose to use "church" to describe Congregation Beth Shalom as a place of Worship. I would encourage anyone reading the article or this post to visit the Congregation Beth Shalom.
Lucy, thank you for your very long reply to my query. I know that you have no control over editorial issues except that I noticed that a quote was attributed to you stating: "The best thing about this church is I feel like these people are my brothers and sisters," she said. I am not trying to argue with you, it is just that I do not know whether you are a "church" or you are truly a messianic congregation. Plus, I would like to point out that it should not be "tedious" to explain the difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity to anyone if your truly believe in being a messianic jew. I wonder what kind of teachings I would get if I visit your congregation. Will it be "christian" ideas or "messianic jewish" ideas and they are not one and the same.
As a Jew who has accepted Yeshua, I am afraid that your place of worship is a church under the disguise that it is a messianic synagogue. I am not interested in the churches and you have convinced me that you are not serious about messianic judaism and trying to reach the Jewish people with your comment: "We have some people in our congregation that also attend "churches" and many that do not." I do not understand that concept! Please explain.
Shalom
Shalom LookingforTruth,
I am Rabbi Don Lansing. I am ordained by the International Alliance of Messianic Congregations and Synagogues (IAMCS), and Congregation Beth Shalom is certified by the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America. In the CSRA we are the only certified Messianic Congregation and I am the only ordained Messianic Rabbi. You ask about our teachings, where do you presently attend? Who's feet do you presently sit at? What is their S'mikhah and what is their Yeshivah? Please do not judge us without attending one of our services. I will be out of town this weekend. However, if you will attend sometime in the near future I will be glad to sit down with you and explain all about us and our teachings. If this will not work for you please make an appointment with me by calling me at 706-796-3797. Thank you.
Rabbi Don Lansing
Looking for Truth,
Thanks for reading my reply, and I’d like to answer your questions.
LFT: I know that you have no control over editorial issues except that I noticed that a quote was attributed to you stating: "The best thing about this church is I feel like these people are my brothers and sisters," she said. I am not trying to argue with you, it is just that I do not know whether you are a "church" or you are truly a messianic congregation.
I believe our Rabbi has posted on the topic of whether we are a “church” or Messianic Synagogue. What you see in the newspaper article is a condensation of a conversation that was over an hour long in which the reporter took few notes. Her “quotes” are more along the lines of how she remembered the conversation. She also quotes me as saying something about the “coolness of the Bible” in a way that sounds downright silly and not how I talk. Also, I am not a public figure so quoting me accurately isn’t of much concern to the paper.
I do understand why you may be hesitant and I understand that you aren’t looking for an argument. You are right to be wary though. Someone I met who is a Jewish believer said that the first group he ran into were just “Baptists in kippahs.” I always thought that was funny that the Jewish person knew enough to know their theology was Baptist and they didn’t know enough about Judaism to know how thin a veneer they presented. There are groups that believe that if they can convert enough Jews to Christianity, then that will usher in the Messianic Age. Their intent is not to worship as Jews but to appear Jewish enough that converted Jews feel comfortable. For Jews that grew up in non-observant families, that might be sufficient.
LFT: I would like to point out that it should not be "tedious" to explain the difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity to anyone if your truly believe in being a messianic jew.
I agree with you that it should not be tedious to explain the difference between Messianic Judaism and Christianity but it often is. I don’t mean tedious as in annoying but rather that it’s often a meaty discussion and most people aren’t ready for meat. It's not a matter of how much you believe in Messianic Judaism but of the understanding level of your audience. It is possible to explain the difference rather bluntly to Christians but I tend to avoid that as it makes people defensive. I want them to seek the Lord, not defend their church’s doctrine.
Most Christians understand little of their own doctrine or history and with ecumenical movements, doctrine has been largely set aside. As for Judaism, there is not all that much teaching in churches about Jewish understanding or practice. If you have seen mainstream Christian studies on “Jewish” topics like the Tabernacle, you realize how very shallow they are. With that being the case, discussing Messianic Judaism requires some ground work. Just an easy discussion of Passover vs. Easter would involve talking about God’s calendar, the sacrificial system, blood atonement (a heresy in some Christian denominations), Divine Judgment (not everyone sees that as just), and the list goes on and on. Once you get through the Biblical side of the matter, you have to wade through the pagan aspects of Easter. Even on that one topic, pointing out that the Hebrew children were delivered by GRACE and then offered the opportunity to be observant and in relationship with God will still be a huge shock. Most Christians think of grace as purely a New Testament idea.
LFT: "We have some people in our congregation that also attend "churches" and many that do not." I do not understand that concept! Please explain.
When you consider the above issues, you can understand why it might take someone quite a while to change their ways. There is a lot of learning to do and maybe even more un-learning. Many people do that in private and only would come to a synagogue once they understand quite a bit, maybe after several years of study. Some, once they first begin to realize there are issues with their understanding prefer to work through that in a body of believers, hopefully in a situation in which they can ask questions and gain understanding. Others are Christians that find out they have Jewish ancestry and want to know more because they’ve always felt spiritually out of place. Some people are completely unfamiliar with Judeo-Christian theology and upon reading a Bible find that they feel Messianic Judaism best represents the plain reading of the text. Whatever the reason, when people come, they are often in the process of making a transition. Those are usually not easy transitions. People do not end up on this walk unless the Lord calls them though. If He sees potential in that person’s heart, who am I to argue? I’m just glad He saw potential in mine.
I have also noticed that personal relationships often cause a lot of conflict with observance. Probably the trickiest one is that not everyone is blessed with a spouse of the same faith. If you are so blessed, stop right now and thank the Lord. It is painful to be unequally yoked and given that we are all different, there is a wide variety in how to handle a situation like that. That is true of any sort of interfaith marriage. In that trial I am sure people make mistakes, stumble and then continue on as we all do with our own trials. They do it attached to another person though. As one woman I know puts it, it’s like running a spiritual three-legged race. It’s not always graceful.
The Lord knows how to best reach each of us and how to best use us for His purposes. Look at Joseph: why did he have to go into a pagan land and take a pagan wife? And along those lines, consider Hosea and the theatrical way he had to live out his message with Gomer. In our way of looking at things, we would say it should not be that way. Yet for whatever reason, the Lord chooses to work as He will. If you are going to be a light to the world, sometimes you might have to shine into some dark, cobwebby corners. But, what profit are you to Him if you only light up an area that is already brightly lit?
In none of this would I say that the appropriate message is “it doesn’t matter what you do”. I believe that your observance matters a great deal. There is as much variety within Messianic Judaism as there is within Judaism. As I said before, though we are on the same path, I’ve come to realize that we are not all in the same place on that path. He has laid out a path of observance that will lead to understanding Him and His Will but we have to proceed along that path. We come to the path with different personalities, different levels of understanding and different life experiences. Unlike Judaism or Christianity, very few people “inherit” Messianic Judaism from their parents so we all have a great deal to learn. Whatever the case, as long as we are all moving along the path together following our Shepherd we can learn from each other and, more importantly, from Him.
Lucy, I like the way that you have given more insight regarding the issues that Looking For Truth presented. I cannot tell you how many times I have felt like going pppffftt to people who only want to argue the Word of Adonai. Then again, if I do that I not only cheat myself, but I rob them of knowledge that they truly need. When you speak of being unequally yoked, I was there, well sort of. My husband is from a non-observant Sephardic Hebrew lineage. When we married he did not tell me that he had Hebraic Roots, all that he said is that with our children he wanted them raised according to the Word of
G-d. Well coming from a Catholic background and one he was familiar with we began attending the local Catholic Church. Well that didn't last long, because he became more frustrated that he couldn't get the answers he was looking for. He then said, if you find a Church were the Truth is being taught then we will go there. Not that he didn't want to look for one, he was working many hours and at rest his mind wasn't on "church hopping". So hop a long I went. We ended up at a congregation where the minister was raised in a traditional observant Orthodox home, who during the Vietnam Conflict, found himself in a foxhole with a Christian, who asked him if he were to die that day did he know where he would spend the rest of Eternity? Well, as it turned out, they fought side by side for over a year and he learned more and more of G-d's Mercy, Grace and Redemption through and by the Atoning Blood of Jesus/Yeshua the Messiah/Maschiach. This he explained in full detail to my husband, and he asked my husband if he had ever been immersed? He said no, but that he would come back to that issue of immersion the next week. This pastor then asked him if he were a Jew? My husband said, well yes, I am, but not observant. I was like, are you for real?!?! That's why he gave the answer he did about being immersed. To make a long story short, we both went home, opened the Bible and began looking up verse after verse and came to realize that what this pastor was saying was the truth as we understood it. Immediately we began to observe the Appointed Times and Seasons of Adonai. It has been nearly 16yrs and we have not looked back since then. OH we've seen, heard, and attended so called Messianic Congregations not Synagogues, which added to a lot of confusion. Now we know that where we are in our walk is where we are supposed to be. Not everyone can accept the light, because it dispells the darkness and they would rather have just a little light than to walk in the fullness thereof. I could probably go on and on, but I thought I would share just a little insight on the path that led us to where we are today. I know that I am grafted into the good olive tree and as such the fruit that I now produce is good fruit. I am not as eloquent and knowlegeable as you are, and yet when I read what you have written I feel like a genius now. Rather now I have a little more information with which to use when speaking with others. Thank you, thank you so much. May G-d continue to give you wisdom to shine light into the dark areas of our predisposed and quite often times errant religious thoughts.